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SLS 2020 - Points for discussion

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Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:40 am PostPost subject: SLS 2020 - Points for discussion
AK
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Any points to discuss?

Please let me know, and i'll knock up a list for Duncan/KMSC for discussion at end of year meeting.


Some of my personal thoughts


    - Change the rule that means you are DQ'd if you hit a cone/bollard in the final. Its too harsh - a time penalty should be applied in my opinion. 10sec penalty is enough to discourage it!

    - Mandatory drivers briefing: I dont agree with the new drivers only briefing. Everyone should be there. Helps people see whos new, who to look out for etc. Also keeps all drivers up to date with any goings on.

    - Classes:I think they are fine.... but any suggestions/changes in the pipeline?


Things to discuss... (I have to stress these are not rule changes.... this is merely my thoughts on what may be suggested)

Points to Raise:

    - Consider an open pit final to bring back some of the track time? (pros and cons for me.... but majority rules I guess. I like the pressure of the 1 lap final)

    - Up the cost to re-introduce the warmup session? (is that even an option or is the length of day a more critical issue than cost) {AK}

    - Keep or bin the Chase Race to free up time? {AK}

    - Points system for Qualifying {SH}

    - Dyno locations - add another more Northerly location {SJ}

    - Licence grade for PRO class {SJ}

    - Ability to move competitors out of class if they are 'too quick' for competition {SJ}

    - 2020 Dates {SA}

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Last edited by AK on Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:14 am PostPost subject:
David Long
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I said what my initial reaction to the format change was on the FB post (here it is for reference) -

''I think events like this are always going to evolve and back in 2013, when it all started, it certainly represented some very good quality track time for a good price. I've 'evolved' with it too, and now I don't use the full time anyway (simply because of the costs of running my car) so I'm not too concerned.

But the attraction for newcomers, and those with more robust cars, will be eroded by this reduction in time for (and let's be honest) higher cost. With the changes that have happened this year I think we are at risk demoting the SLS to a morning, or afternoon fun event - one step up from a track day. Wait a minute! Wasn't that the original idea?.''

But having read all the comments and thought more about it, I do think this signifies a move to a more dictatorial approach than we have seen in the past. It's all very well to make excuses for the organisers on grounds of it being a business that needs to make money, but the individual investment by competitors can be very high too.

Reducing SLS track time and shoehorning in other events to the day is not the answer.

I think Colin Dorward hit the nail on the head when he said changing the format mid season is simply wrong and is a breach of trust, and contract for those who have paid upfront.
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:47 am PostPost subject:
AK
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some news on that front to come I think... spoke with Duncan this morning and some things have obviously been taken on board.
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:43 am PostPost subject:
Steve H
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David Long wrote:
Reducing SLS track time and shoehorning in other events to the day is not the answer.

I think Colin Dorward hit the nail on the head when he said changing the format mid season is simply wrong and is a breach of trust, and contract for those who have paid upfront.


Could not agree more!!

I think the points system needs a revision:
- Points for 15 competitors seems a lot when, at the last round, Class E had the most competitors with 11 while all other classes had less than 10.
- Qualifying should have a larger differential than 1 point between places. You could effectively come 6th in qualifying (10 points) and first in the final (25points) and have the same total for the event as someone who came 1st in qualifying (15points) and 2nd in the final (20 points). I don't think qualifying should carry the same points as the final, just a larger differential between each position.

I think the rest of the format work's well other than the points David raised above..
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:55 am PostPost subject:
Steviej
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My personal views are First and foremost its a great series, don't try to change it too much ! That said I agree with the majority that a reduction in track time would be unessesary and unfair to what is billed as the headline event on SLS weekends. Ways to avoid this could be Consider moving BMW and Legends back to SMRC weekends as proven there are enough numbers to run races, Chase Race, Is it worth running this due to % of SLS competitors entering ? If the warm up is really in jeopardy would a 30 min open pit warm up session be an option, then those who want to use it can and it would be more preferred than an open pit final.
Other views apart from track time are Dyno venues; Should be opened up more for competitor travel / times / costs etc, Class times ; Move up a class if your time is within the top 3 times of next class, Pro class: Why the need for a race licence, I understand that its so novices cant turn up in a pro car basically, but why not specify a Speed Nat A so 6 signatures are needed, but no requirement for ARDS / medical etc, I asked this and was told as we currenty use TA rules we need a race licence, but we don't really use TA rules, they run different class structure and their pro class allow slicks, nos etc, which makes the speed differential far greater to others on track.
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:13 am PostPost subject:
AK
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Steve H wrote:
David Long wrote:
Reducing SLS track time and shoehorning in other events to the day is not the answer.

I think Colin Dorward hit the nail on the head when he said changing the format mid season is simply wrong and is a breach of trust, and contract for those who have paid upfront.


Could not agree more!!

I think the points system needs a revision:
- Points for 15 competitors seems a lot when, at the last round, Class E had the most competitors with 11 while all other classes had less than 10.
- Qualifying should have a larger differential than 1 point between places. You could effectively come 6th in qualifying (10 points) and first in the final (25points) and have the same total for the event as someone who came 1st in qualifying (15points) and 2nd in the final (20 points). I don't think qualifying should carry the same points as the final, just a larger differential between each position.

I think the rest of the format work's well other than the points David raised above..


Can you come up with a better suggestion for the qualy points? 10-1 for top 10? 5-1 for top 5?

Bit of history on the points - The points were changed to give competitors that were finishing outside the top places a chance at making points, with Q points being used to avoid tied scores come the end of the year. It was too top heavy before. i.e its more inclusive if the top 15 get points.

The offsets between Q and F were to help avoid ties.
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:51 pm PostPost subject:
scottish scrutineer
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Steviej wrote:
Consider moving BMW and Legends back to SMRC weekends as proven there are enough numbers to run races,

Legends at the last round was as at Scottish Legends request to have another race weekend with reverse direction. They paid for the grid slots.


Steviej wrote:
Dyno venues; Should be opened up more for competitor travel / times / costs etc,

Using one dyno with a limited number of operators means a greater chance of consistency. Dyno results can and do vary. We would still need to retain a definitive dyno, which has 4wd capability. Can we trust people to declare if their car is unchanged from the current year, so we don't need them to have a dyno run for 2020? That would release some capacity at Russ's place.

Steviej wrote:
Class times ; Move up a class if your time is within the top 3 times of next class,
There is possibly scope to do that within S17, but it shouldn't be automatic

Steviej wrote:
Pro class: Why the need for a race licence, I understand that its so novices cant turn up in a pro car basically, but why not specify a Speed Nat A so 6 signatures are needed, but no requirement for ARDS / medical etc, I asked this and was told as we currenty use TA rules we need a race licence, but we don't really use TA rules, they run different class structure and their pro class allow slicks, nos etc, which makes the speed differential far greater to others on track.


SLS runs under S17, which is Time Attack (though not the same as "Time Attack (TM)" )
H8.2.4 could ease the burden though.
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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Re: the moving up classes comments...

I cant stress how much I dislike that rule. It doesnt make sense to penalise folk for being quick. I can see certain cases in isolation where drivers are unreachable in a class. I think a general rule to allow organisers to move individuals up a class would work better. Any feedback on that?

Some classes are more competitive than others, so you'd be pumped up a class if the class above isn't strong for a few rounds.

Case in hand.... Class B and A a year or two back. B was regularly quicker than A
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:40 pm PostPost subject:
Steviej
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Re pro licence point, I’m happy that it has been clarified that pro needs a race licence and there is a simplified way to upgrade for qualifying competitors. Anyone know who to contact if you want to do the upgrade ?
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:50 pm PostPost subject:
Steviej
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Re the moving class point, simply put if one car is 2-3 secs quicker than everyone else it should be moved to a more suitable class with corresponding lap times, not moaning, doesn’t affect me just saying what others have also said for the good of the series and promoting healthy close competition at all levels.
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Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:45 am PostPost subject:
AK
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Steviej wrote:
Re the moving class point, simply put if one car is 2-3 secs quicker than everyone else it should be moved to a more suitable class with corresponding lap times, not moaning, doesn’t affect me just saying what others have also said for the good of the series and promoting healthy close competition at all levels.


Kinda agree with that, but class above would also need to be considered I think. I.e I know i'm towards the top of B most of the time, but depending on who enters... i'm not walking away with it.

Round 1 I could beat folk by 2 secs, and be within 0.5s of A winner
Round 3 I could be beaten by Craig Nicol in B... for example.

If I then go into A (after a result like Round 1 above).... I may still get on the podium, but i'd be severely handicapped (lack of power).

I think its a point worth discussion (will add in)... but I think it also blurs the lines for the classes.
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Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:50 am PostPost subject:
AK
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Steviej wrote:
Re pro licence point, I’m happy that it has been clarified that pro needs a race licence and there is a simplified way to upgrade for qualifying competitors. Anyone know who to contact if you want to do the upgrade ?


Steve Burns to get the historic results signed for. He may also know how to progress with it. Otherwise MSA/Motorsport UK

You'd need to speak with KH to organise the written exam part of the ARDS test. Costs are/were reduced for this in the past (Duncan may be best point of contact for that).
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Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:55 am PostPost subject:
Steviej
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Thanks for the reply re the licence.

On classes, I don't see an issue if more than one car can set the laptimes, (yourself and Craig in B for example), thats fair enough.
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Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:45 pm PostPost subject:
s2t
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Just a few thoughts on a Staurday afternoon;
Communication, not everyone has facebook so would suggest SuperLapScotland webpage is used more as an information dump with prompts coming via Facebook
Results up till this year, results and scores were posted on the SLS website this season seems to have fallen into disrepair so would suggest reverting back to what we had so the days times would be posted and retained on the webpage which also makes for a historic ready reckoner
The Standings page again it would be easier to have the info on that page for the various classes and King of the Hill etc, also it is a bit confusing regarding road car championship, is it an overall championship or by class (or both)

Committee, there have been consistent comments that this is the drivers Championship and whilst I acknowledge there has been an open door to Stuart Duncan and Rory from an individual perspective, perhaps we should have some sort of committee with reps from all the classes or the 3 driving groups to act as a sounding board, guage the feeling of the drivers, discuss challenges etc

At the drivers 2020 discussion in the interests of transparency it would be good to hear the challenges Knockhill Motor Sports Club face, so the drivers are made more aware of the financial and organisational challenges. There shouldnt be an issue discuissing income and expenditure as we are all members of the Club

Trophies appreciate costs can run away in this area especially as there will be c450-500 to hand out over the season but can this be looked into...I am pretty sure there was a trophy exhibitor at Autosport this year that had crash helmet/steering wheel design trophies for less than £5, but I have no idea what the SLS budget is for trophies

Thoughts and progress update on the 2020 away round

I get a sense that after the Croft issue re tracktime/cost and the last round issue in September which has been somewhat nullified, that you may find fewer people paying for entire Championship up front and would rather pay by round. If that is the case then that will have an impact on cashflow. I am guessing that in 2019 then there would have been about 20 paying for the Championship upfront

The usual comment about getting the dates for 2020 out as soon as possible so we can book holidays or work rotas around them

Where are the new drivers coming from? I suspect mostly through a mate who is competing and that gets the new persons interest to join in the fun. I see it is planned to have a British Hillclimb vs British Sprint event at Angelsey in October, maybe we could consider having a SLS vs Scottish Sprint/Hillclimb event at the end of the season?

Can we do more for our SLS event sponsors? Again I am not aware of the £'s but as has been hinted at if costs are going up and there is a desire to keep entry fees competitive then maybe we should be looking for more event sponsors, but we need to offer them something attractive in return
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Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:12 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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I used to run/maintain the SLS website (for first 4 years or so)... KH wanted to take this over to bring it more inline with their main website/branding and to open up the online bookings etc etc. I simply handed them over the domain name, and the historic site. All the 'old' tables, lap records and reports are actually still hosted on TS hosted site... http://www.trackscotland.co.uk/superlap/ I know I'd like to see this sort of info/effort being carried on, but I simply dont have the access to do it now. I am willing, just not able Laughing Realistically I no longer have the time either :/

It is an area that could be improved, but I'm simply putting it down to time/personnel. I knew how much time I spent on SLS in the early days... and I'm sure KH would need to employ a single person to run/maintain/organise etc. As far as I know, Duncan has many roles at KH. I also noticed a post by KH that their web designer Alan has moved on. 1 guy to maintain KH's site + SLS is pretty thinly spread I think. See what happens with his replacement.

I agree whole heatedly though... I spent a lot of time on this and its a little annoying seeing it not maintained.

Re Committee - I'd disagree here. In my opinion the only things committees are good for is arguments and general disagreement Very Happy
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500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
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