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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:44 am PostPost subject:
Performancetek
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That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:47 am PostPost subject:
andybell
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for me its part of the attraction of mini - you get 3 races in a day and makes it more worthwhile. Flip side of this any damage risk to getting into all the races. I mitigate that by paying for race support but that does increase race cost dramatically.

I think the biggest challenge is without sponsorship how many people can spend a 4 figure sum every race weekend? Isnt that biggest challenge and why numbers are down?

I get the previous point about nobody is willing to get long game but the only way for it not to be long game is for a large group of people to get together and sort.

Maybe need a 'come to jesus' type meeting for anyone interested at a pub somewhere? Smile
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:50 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.



Ok you are right...i'm wrong.

As mentioned, i've given feedback as to why not MORE people aren't getting involved.

Up to you all to make that decision whether you agree or disagree.

Im sure everyone would love to hear your opinion on how to increase numbers to SMRC. Not seen any feedback on that, just seen you break down my comments and criticize not construct.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:55 am PostPost subject:
Performancetek
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Yumen, I enter around a quarter of the drivers in the SMRC's biggest grid and have more lined up for next year in the R53 cup, trust me when I say I'm doing my bit for getting numbers up, and only passing on advice on how others could do the same.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:56 am PostPost subject:
crayons
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To my mind I think to much emphasis is put on single make race series. It results in somewhat of a boom bust cycle where a new make comes, is promoted heavily, reaches saturation a slowly declines to an consistent number. It also results in to much segregation on race day and a waste of time on race day, because each series has to have its own race slot.

I think the tin tops should be grouped together as much as possible e.g. BWWs and STs, Minis and Copper S (although I do recognize the success of the minis)

We need a different way of thinking for circuit racing in Scotland as opposed to the rest of the UK. There simply isn't the numbers or the track time to support numerous single make series.

I see the issue with attracting different people in to S&S is not only a class structure that gives ppl something to fight for but also the seriously fast cars dominate the race, in terms of affecting the amount of race time the "slower cars" get, but also effects there racing due to lapping and blue flages Etc.

Ideally with some reorganizing of the race day you could allow for the sacrificing of a race slot for these super fast cars (they cars on slicks) , and then have another race slot for another multi class race (threaded tyres) for the likes of the clios, hondas and what ever else ppl want to enter.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:01 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:05 am PostPost subject:
crayons
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HummuH wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.


+1 Best of both worlds then.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:11 am PostPost subject:
Performancetek
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HummuH wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.


Someone with an interest in entering should take this idea to the smrc. Similarly, Yumen, have you discussed power to weight issues with the smrc, there's still plenty time for regs to be signed off by the MSA. A power cap rather than a power to weight limit could be a good halfway house and keep things cheaper and simpler.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:15 am PostPost subject:
crayons
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Performancetek wrote:
HummuH wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.


Someone with an interest in entering should take this idea to the smrc. Similarly, Yumen, have you discussed power to weight issues with the smrc, there's still plenty time for regs to be signed off by the MSA. A power cap rather than a power to weight limit could be a good halfway house and keep things cheaper and simpler.


Perhaps a joint communication from all those interested in entering the S&S under a power/ weight ratio class structure to the SMRC would be the way to go. Either an email or a letter.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:16 am PostPost subject:
scotiamr2t
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Joined: 28 May 2008
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frazjam wrote:
Clio driver here

Thought about this for a couple of years, opted for SLS due to the cheaper and more evenly matched nature but I'm dying for competitive racing rather than against the clock.

Only reason I haven't made a jump up being that there is nearly no cars doing similar times to race against, so it would just be an expensive trackday.

I'm doing 60/61 second laps, the cooper S are just ahead and only going to get faster. If a decent group of cars doing a similar time was there I would be keen


I am with fraser, never bothered making the move to smrc as there simply wasn't any comparable cars taking part. If there were a group of similarly paced cars i would be very keen to take the leap
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:44 am PostPost subject:
emicen
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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scotiamr2t wrote:
frazjam wrote:
Clio driver here

Thought about this for a couple of years, opted for SLS due to the cheaper and more evenly matched nature but I'm dying for competitive racing rather than against the clock.

Only reason I haven't made a jump up being that there is nearly no cars doing similar times to race against, so it would just be an expensive trackday.

I'm doing 60/61 second laps, the cooper S are just ahead and only going to get faster. If a decent group of cars doing a similar time was there I would be keen


I am with fraser, never bothered making the move to smrc as there simply wasn't any comparable cars taking part. If there were a group of similarly paced cars i would be very keen to take the leap


Clio 172/182 times from SLS would put you front of grid for a race with the current STs. Of course running times in qualifying and/or traffic is a bit different, it's not hard to see you getting a decent race there. The more Clio the merrier Wink

The eligibility scrutineer suggested some changes to the current Fiesta regs which should make them a tickle faster next year also, maybe not 60s quick but looking at their current times 61.x is probably achieveable.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:57 am PostPost subject:
Erik
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Joined: 16 Apr 2008
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As a semi regular hot-hatch goer - i've been shouting the case for a hot hatch championship for a long long time now.

Appreciate there is perhaps classes within S&S that hot hatches could fall in to - but a dedicated championship in line with some of the multitude of other similar championships down south would be great to see in my opinion.

Have said it for long enough, as impressive as the super fast stuff is at knockhill - the best racing is always in the 'lower' classes - and i think thats a point made pretty well by the number of drivers who have gone from the big power stuff to dabbling in the slower stuff where the better 'racing' is.

As for the right and wrong way to do it - there will always be flaws however you address it. Personally, i dont think that power to weight is the be all and end all - even in SLS we see a bit of overlap between classes where the top end of Class F are running at Class E pace. My personal gripe with the SLS structure is the similarity between times and cars which can bunnyhop between classes with an extra pound of boost added or taken away or whatever. I always think it would be better if there was a more obvious gap between the classes - but again, theres always going to be flaws and oddities.

My own personal vision for a hot hatch championship would probably be based around power caps. Probably split in to two classes, an up to 1600 class and an up to 2000 class with power caps of maybe 150 and 200bhp respectively. N/A only and fairly strict restrictions over mods..... I think there are a lot of things you can do to keep it from being a case of seeing who's got the biggest wallet.

The biggest problem you have with enticing the hot hatch community (in my opinion anyway) is that most of us just do not have the kinda budget required to go racing. Thats the reality of the situation for folk with cars at that sort of level.

Even in its cheapest form, motorsport just isnt a cheap thing to do.

Speaking personally, i'm confident that in a 1600 NA class with a 150bhp power cap i could be at least fairly competitive. However - i'm ruled out straight away on the basis that I simply cannot afford the cost even at that level. Getting the car up to spec, racewear, licences and entry fee's make it very prohibitive - and thats before you even consider any (inevitable) damage...... that's probably the single biggest hurdle in getting folk to take the leap from casual track day goers to actual racers in my opinion.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:02 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Glasgow

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Performancetek wrote:
HummuH wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.


Someone with an interest in entering should take this idea to the smrc. Similarly, Yumen, have you discussed power to weight issues with the smrc, there's still plenty time for regs to be signed off by the MSA. A power cap rather than a power to weight limit could be a good halfway house and keep things cheaper and simpler.


Yes it was proposed. Result is Null and Hot Hatch Series is a goer.

We suggested 150WHP per tonne, i'd imagine this would fit in clios, fiestas, mins and others.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:04 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Performancetek wrote:
Yumen, I enter around a quarter of the drivers in the SMRC's biggest grid and have more lined up for next year in the R53 cup, trust me when I say I'm doing my bit for getting numbers up, and only passing on advice on how others could do the same.


Wasnt aware you entered that many cars, are those cars you talk about competitors that use your services or are they all PTEK official cars that you enter from PTEK.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:07 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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crayons wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
HummuH wrote:
Performancetek wrote:
That wouldn't work. Try telling the ST drivers they are going from a two race weekend to having one race.


There's time in the programme to split classes and have two races. Quali could be based on SLS quali time. That would work well.


Someone with an interest in entering should take this idea to the smrc. Similarly, Yumen, have you discussed power to weight issues with the smrc, there's still plenty time for regs to be signed off by the MSA. A power cap rather than a power to weight limit could be a good halfway house and keep things cheaper and simpler.


Perhaps a joint communication from all those interested in entering the S&S under a power/ weight ratio class structure to the SMRC would be the way to go. Either an email or a letter.


I tried and failed Sad

Might be good for more people to show interest on this and to share their thoughts, that might grab smrc attention.
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