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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:35 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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emicen wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:
gruggs wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:
emicen wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:
I had proposed having clios added into this, managed to gather a decent amount of serious interest but nothing came of it.

Looks like there will be a new hot hatch race series set up similar to Combe, classes set up into engine size. Clios won't be able to compete against other 2000cc so everyone lost interest.

The clios added in we wanted it to be set up the same as sls (power/weight) with 2 classes, 1 modified and 1 with limited mods.

Reckon we would of had a minimum of 5/6 cars for defo in modified then same for the limited class.

The new hot hatch series will be whoever has deepest pockets will have bigger chance of winning whereas the power/weight set up seems to work well as it has done in sls.

I did consider doing the minis but it's carnage 😂

Will most likely be sls next year for me if I can get car built and enough seat time.

Proposed classes:

Class A:

Power/Weight 150whp per tonne
- Tyres - list 1 a/b
- Suspension - open
- Brakes - std calipers, discs n pads open
- Safety - full cage, Extinguisher, Seats/harnesses, HANS device.

Class B:

Same as above except suspension and below stated mods.
- Cup shocks
- Cooksport springs
- No diff
- No rc kit


And the response you were given was that awards could be given for a CSOC Trophy within the Championship in a similar way to Super Lap Scotland.

Speaking as someone who has raced an EP3, I would sooner build a Clio. At the last SLS round the Clios competing in F were 4 seconds quicker than the EP3 also competing in F.


So csoc would need to fund the clios trophys etc but entry fees go to organisers. Doesn't quite add up does it.

The Ep3 in the last round was pretty much bog std. are you surprised it was off the pace.
With some lightly mods it'll be right up there with the top runners. Bare in mind top of class f is doing class e times.


And the entries fees of the competitors only funding a few ten quid trophies does add up?

I'm sure that could be easily sorted through discussion if that is the only issue.


Where else do funds come from for the awards etc?

If it was sorted it would of been mentioned when I got a reply. I was told "Still happy for you to provide a Clio Sport Owners Club trophy to the highest placed CSOC member in the same way as you do in SLS"

My point originally is that if the regs were different and more structured similar to sls with power to weight I think this would attract more drivers/cars.

Reason that the 5/10 clios Id gathered up aren't interested as we all know we would be up against much more capable cars i.e. Honda's that produce much more power. You stick a high specced Clio vs same specced Honda the Honda will be faster.

Anyways just sharing my thoughts and with the rest of frenchie family from feedback I got.

I'll be following this thread. There seems to be lots of people wanting to get involved with smrc but haven't, regs seem to be biggest issue.

Power to weight classes wins.

Nite all bed time


In the case of 3 or more cars entering being eligible for the sub classes you mentioned, I'm sure the club would provide a trophy for the winner in each class. I don't doubt the importance of trophies, but at the same time, it makes a mockery of people's achievements when you end up awarding trophies for pretty much turning up.

Maybe the class F runners in SLS last time out isn't a good example but I stand by my point. For racing at Knockhill, I would pick a Clio over an EP3 any day, it's a far better handling package and the number of them out there would give you a far better chance of getting a decent race especially along side STs which run similar lap times. From what I've seen on trackdays with loads of Clios and EP3s running, there's no massive performance gap apparent, if anything it's usually the Clios bullying the Civics out the way.


Absolutly agree not having 3 cars enter and all getting awards etc

Personal preference then on choice but it is clear as day that the Honda is a better car when built maybe out the factory clios are better but when you start modding them to similar specs there isn't much difference but Honda has the power also.
if I had the choice and cash was no issue I would go Honda. 280hp n/a and light weight. Lets be honest there aren't that many at kh but it is possible.
There is a large performance gap, around 50hp if both engines were pushed and built right. A k20 civic/integra set up well will be faster than a high spec Clio without a doubt. There's a video recently of the fastest Clio at kh up against a lightly modded dc5 with full interior. There was not much in it. What do you think will happen when the dc5 gets modded and weight ripped out it.

To sum it up, the regs don't suit and seem unfair as I said, it'll become a money pit, Power to weight is imo a much better way to run the classes.

Myself and the other 5/10 Clio drivers won't be racing in this series unless regs change.
Some us will end up headin down south for some racing most likely.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:39 am PostPost subject:
emicen
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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foz01 wrote:
A "real" 280 BHP out of a K20 is a lot more complicated (expensive) than bolting on a set of ITB's, I promise you!

Clio's are quick cars, rather than being off put about the likes of a type R being potentially quicker, of which there aren't any chomping at the bit, try and get a bunch of people to commit Smile

I will do the last SMRC of the rear, as a learning curve really, but it will be my first toe in the water in preparation for next year Smile


Make use of the SMRC coaches Wink

We've all been there, first race weekends are daunting but you're racing with the only club in the UK to have put in place a coaching programme for their members.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:41 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 46
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foz01 wrote:
A "real" 280 BHP out of a K20 is a lot more complicated (expensive) than bolting on a set of ITB's, I promise you!

Clio's are quick cars, rather than being off put about the likes of a type R being potentially quicker, of which there aren't any chomping at the bit, try and get a bunch of people to commit Smile

I will do the last SMRC of the rear, as a learning curve really, but it will be my first toe in the water in preparation for next year Smile


I don't doubt it is complicated if I had no clue.. If I had the cash and I was racing I'd drop my k20 off with andrew at Automek and let him build it. That isn't too complicated. Realistically even a k20a with bolt ins can make 260hp.

Ach we will see, what happens, consensus from the Clio guys it would become a money pit.
Might be worth waitin and seeing who else gets involved.

#powertoweight
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:41 am PostPost subject:
foz01
WankR
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Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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emicen wrote:
foz01 wrote:
A "real" 280 BHP out of a K20 is a lot more complicated (expensive) than bolting on a set of ITB's, I promise you!

Clio's are quick cars, rather than being off put about the likes of a type R being potentially quicker, of which there aren't any chomping at the bit, try and get a bunch of people to commit Smile

I will do the last SMRC of the rear, as a learning curve really, but it will be my first toe in the water in preparation for next year Smile


Make use of the SMRC coaches Wink

We've all been there, first race weekends are daunting but you're racing with the only club in the UK to have put in place a coaching programme for their members.


Ok so I know nothing about said coaches Smile
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:45 am PostPost subject:
foz01
WankR
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YumYumTurbo wrote:


I don't doubt it is complicated if I had no clue.. If I had the cash and I was racing I'd drop my k20 off with andrew at Automek and let him build it. That isn't too complicated. Realistically even a k20a with bolt ins can make 260hp.

#powertoweight


I have a built K20 in my current car, spent a fortune tuning an F20 as well in the past, and trust me, a K20 with bolt on's/Kpro will do 230ish, a real 280bhp will cost you the thick end of 10 grand.

That isn't realistic for most people in clubman championships.

Internet horsepower is often exaggerated Smile
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:51 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Location: Glasgow

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foz01 wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:


I don't doubt it is complicated if I had no clue.. If I had the cash and I was racing I'd drop my k20 off with andrew at Automek and let him build it. That isn't too complicated. Realistically even a k20a with bolt ins can make 260hp.

#powertoweight


I have a built K20 in my current car, spent a fortune tuning an F20 as well in the past, and trust me, a K20 with bolt on's/Kpro will do 230ish, a real 280bhp will cost you the thick end of 10 grand.

That isn't realistic for most people in clubman championships.

Internet horsepower is often exaggerated Smile


K20a2 maybe yeah but k20a will make more. Trust me we have done it. Andrew baird built the car from scratch. Bolt on mods kpro and it made over 260. It was my cousins car. Just asking him where it was mapped and tested just to confirm. Obv some rr give higher readings.

Yup I'm well aware, built engine, cams, itbs with mega head work.

Why is it not realistic, this is my point, if someone want to fling money at it they can.

Internet horsepower? It happened
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:55 am PostPost subject:
emicen
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 992
Location: Glasgow

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foz01 wrote:
emicen wrote:
foz01 wrote:
A "real" 280 BHP out of a K20 is a lot more complicated (expensive) than bolting on a set of ITB's, I promise you!

Clio's are quick cars, rather than being off put about the likes of a type R being potentially quicker, of which there aren't any chomping at the bit, try and get a bunch of people to commit Smile

I will do the last SMRC of the rear, as a learning curve really, but it will be my first toe in the water in preparation for next year Smile


Make use of the SMRC coaches Wink

We've all been there, first race weekends are daunting but you're racing with the only club in the UK to have put in place a coaching programme for their members.


Ok so I know nothing about said coaches Smile


Sent you a PM Wink
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:28 am PostPost subject:
foz01
WankR
WankR


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Posts: 1322
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YumYumTurbo wrote:
foz01 wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:


I don't doubt it is complicated if I had no clue.. If I had the cash and I was racing I'd drop my k20 off with andrew at Automek and let him build it. That isn't too complicated. Realistically even a k20a with bolt ins can make 260hp.

#powertoweight


I have a built K20 in my current car, spent a fortune tuning an F20 as well in the past, and trust me, a K20 with bolt on's/Kpro will do 230ish, a real 280bhp will cost you the thick end of 10 grand.

That isn't realistic for most people in clubman championships.

Internet horsepower is often exaggerated Smile


K20a2 maybe yeah but k20a will make more. Trust me we have done it. Andrew baird built the car from scratch. Bolt on mods kpro and it made over 260. It was my cousins car. Just asking him where it was mapped and tested just to confirm. Obv some rr give higher readings.

Yup I'm well aware, built engine, cams, itbs with mega head work.

Why is it not realistic, this is my point, if someone want to fling money at it they can.

Internet horsepower? It happened


We can debate K20 horsepower elsewhere, and not clog up this thread!
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:37 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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Joined: 05 Jan 2012
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I think this thread kinda sums it all up really.

With more information flow, better communication and someone actively liaising with competitors and potential competitors there would be more chance to get some of these ideas off the ground.

As it stands, that's the role the drivers rep fills and with no-one currently doing that for S&S I think the outlook remains bleak until that changes. I feel somewhat guilty myself as I set up and run the S&S Facebok page which has a huge amount of followers but with me being out of the loop with SMRC, not actively racing myself it's incredibly hard to actively manage the page.

What is needed is someone to step-up and take on that challenge. I enjoyed it and would happily do it again but I have other commitments at the moment which need to take priority right now. Getting a car that I can race would help!
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:41 am PostPost subject:
Performancetek
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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If there is/was so much interest in the clios (5 or 10) then why not play the long game and get them out there, get the newcomers into racing and enjoying it, then when those numbers double (if they do) then go to the SMRC in the following year and show them the value of the clios having their own grid, backed up with the numbers they are entering in every month. You can't get any closer or fairer racing than a one make series.

Do you think the BMW compact racers enjoyed being at the tail of the sports and saloons grid until they were established? Same with the R53 Cooper S cup, teams are working together with the end goal of building entry numbers to a point it will merit its own race. The entrants aren't complaining they'll never get an outright win in s&s, although Oly was giving the big boys something to worry about at the weekend Laughing

If it's the cost of a few plastic trophies that's the stumbling block then I'm sure that's an issue that can be easily and quickly resolved, either by discussing it further with the club, or finding a business that will sponsor them and cover the cost.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:59 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Performancetek wrote:
If there is/was so much interest in the clios (5 or 10) then why not play the long game and get them out there, get the newcomers into racing and enjoying it, then when those numbers double (if they do) then go to the SMRC in the following year and show them the value of the clios having their own grid, backed up with the numbers they are entering in every month. You can't get any closer or fairer racing than a one make series.

Do you think the BMW compact racers enjoyed being at the tail of the sports and saloons grid until they were established? Same with the R53 Cooper S cup, teams are working together with the end goal of building entry numbers to a point it will merit its own race. The entrants aren't complaining they'll never get an outright win in s&s, although Oly was giving the big boys something to worry about at the weekend Laughing

If it's the cost of a few plastic trophies that's the stumbling block then I'm sure that's an issue that can be easily and quickly resolved, either by discussing it further with the club, or finding a business that will sponsor them and cover the cost.


What would you suggest we do with the clios? I have already mentioned that the class is OPEN, regs don't suit.

You are missing the point, people dont want to get involved because its a money pit, need deep pockets to be competitive. SLS works well because its structure works and you dont need mega money to get involved.

What will work is the sls race event thats proposed for next year.

Look, this thread is all about how to get more people into smrc/racing, not why you think or what people should do or change.

I have posted up because i KNOW/WHY people are not getting involved. I have shared my thoughts and feedback from others that would like to but wont due to all the points i've put across.

You can all take the feedback or just carry on saying people should do this, why dont they do this, my mate does this and that.

Watch this space, i will put money on it that we get more people getting involved with the sls racing events next year.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:18 am PostPost subject:
Performancetek
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YumYumTurbo wrote:

What would you suggest we do with the clios? I have already mentioned that the class is OPEN, regs don't suit.


YumYumTurbo wrote:

Look, this thread is all about how to get more people into smrc/racing, not why you think or what people should do or change.


Going on the above I'm not sure wether you want ideas or not, but it was in my first post.

Performancetek wrote:
If there is/was so much interest in the clios (5 or 10) then why not play the long game and get them out there, get the newcomers into racing and enjoying it, then when those numbers double (if they do) then go to the SMRC in the following year and show them the value of the clios having their own grid, backed up with the numbers they are entering in every month. You can't get any closer or fairer racing than a one make series


Think big, if the interest in the clios is real then I have no doubt with the amount of them out there doing trackdays, it could quickly progress to its own race.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:25 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Performancetek wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:

What would you suggest we do with the clios? I have already mentioned that the class is OPEN, regs don't suit.


YumYumTurbo wrote:

Look, this thread is all about how to get more people into smrc/racing, not why you think or what people should do or change.


Going on the above I'm not sure wether you want ideas or not, but it was in my first post.

Performancetek wrote:
If there is/was so much interest in the clios (5 or 10) then why not play the long game and get them out there, get the newcomers into racing and enjoying it, then when those numbers double (if they do) then go to the SMRC in the following year and show them the value of the clios having their own grid, backed up with the numbers they are entering in every month. You can't get any closer or fairer racing than a one make series


Think big, if the interest in the clios is real then I have no doubt with the amount of them out there doing trackdays, it could quickly progress to its own race.


Your idea wouldnt work. No one wants to play the long game and there is no need to if regs were different.

One make race kind of defeats the purpose of the open hot hatch series. Simple regs change to power to weight would work.

As mentioned, just sharing my feedback on WHY not more people are getting involved.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:27 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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YumYumTurbo wrote:

Watch this space, i will put money on it that we get more people getting involved with the sls racing events next year.


I agree, I think the SLS proposed races will be very interesting and with the power to weight classing has a good platform imo.

However, it will also face it's own challenges. What we've seen in S&S is that having a number a range of cars with different performance can create it's own issues which is why it's quite hard to get it right to suit everyone.

Having a number of cars lapping considerably slower than the leading cars is an example. You can have top speeds differing by as much as 40mph coming into braking zones. If you're in a faster car and come up against 6 cars (Clio's for example) all battling with each other that presents an interesting challenge.
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Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:36 am PostPost subject:
YumYumTurbo
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HummuH wrote:
YumYumTurbo wrote:

Watch this space, i will put money on it that we get more people getting involved with the sls racing events next year.


I agree, I think the SLS proposed races will be very interesting and with the power to weight classing has a good platform imo.

However, it will also face it's own challenges. What we've seen in S&S is that having a number a range of cars with different performance can create it's own issues which is why it's quite hard to get it right to suit everyone.

Having a number of cars lapping considerably slower than the leading cars is an example. You can have top speeds differing by as much as 40mph coming into braking zones. If you're in a faster car and come up against 6 cars (Clio's for example) all battling with each other that presents an interesting challenge.


Yeah very good point.

Think it'll all depend on how many people get involved i suppose, im sure that bridge will be crossed when they come to it.

An option:

Race 1 - Class a-c
Race 2 - Class d-f
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