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SMRC Sports and Saloons

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Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:13 pm PostPost subject: SMRC Sports and Saloons
crayons
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I have seen in various topics here that a lot of people believe that sports and saloons needs a bit of attention and possibly a revamp.

May I make the suggestion that in the early part of 2017 season we get a group of interested people together to provide this attention.

Having been away in 2016 I will be back in 2017, so I am happy to take an active part in this.
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:15 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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I think there is a role for 'Drivers Rep' currently open.....
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:13 pm PostPost subject: Re: SMRC Sports and Saloons
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AK wrote:
I think there is a role for 'Drivers Rep' currently open.....


Yeah, you might need to change the thingy underneath my username Very Happy

crayons wrote:
I have seen in various topics here that a lot of people believe that sports and saloons needs a bit of attention and possibly a revamp.

May I make the suggestion that in the early part of 2017 season we get a group of interested people together to provide this attention.

Having been away in 2016 I will be back in 2017, so I am happy to take an active part in this.


Ian, anything that can be done do improve things is of benefit to both the competitors and the SMRC. As such, I'd support any positive initiative. To be clear, when I refer to the SMRC in this post, I am referring to the organisation as a whole, not specific individuals within the organisation.

My own view is that S&S is an unloved missed opportunity. However, until the SMRC changes it's approach to the S&S Championship and how it operates as a club then it's going to be very hard, if not impossible to make a positive impact. Let's be honest, bottom line is what we're talking about here is entry numbers across all of the eligible classes.

From my time as a Drivers Rep (DR) it became very clear that the number of entries for each meeting/across the season was directly linked to the effort put in to it by the DR. It has been set up so that the bulk of the communication goes between the SMRC and the DR and then in turn from the DR to the competitors and vice versa. Let's not forget that the DR does not represent the SMRC in any official capacity, is not rewarded in any way for their input into the running of the Championship and are usually a competitor themselves, often undertaking their role around an active working and family life.

I could ramble on and nit-pick for pages but it's best to cut to the chase. There are a wealth of great cars capable of racing in S&S north of the border, from factory built GT spec cars to shed built conversions. So why are these cars not turning up to race? Why are there a number of these cars actively racing south of the border at greater financial and time cost to the competitor?

There are a number of reasons for this, some of which can be influenced and some that can't, but fundamentally things will not change until the SMRC changes it's approach to the different Championships within the club, brings itself into the 21st Century in terms of social media and technology and starts to treat it's members as being part of a "club". It needs the "fun" put back into it and it's sorely lacking.

Personally, I think the future of S&S would be best procured by having a separate entity run the Championship as an SMRC hosted event but as things stand it's hard to see how that could happen.
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:17 pm PostPost subject:
emicen
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Funnily enough reading the comments on Adam & Fee's MINI thread I was just thinking about this topic.

There's a lot of chat in various threads but not actually seen anything being proposed.
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:13 pm PostPost subject:
arm10
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I know nothing about this not being a racer but would a forum for members not help and if it works like this one the exchange of views and knowledge is bound to help
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:25 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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most folk in Sport & Saloons (that use forums) are on here.... so prob no need to get and setup a new place.

FB/Twitter is prob more relevant in this day and age too... I know it is for our trackdays and SLS.

All valid points..... but I feel that I cant really offer much to the series (as a potential drivers rep) due to my sporadic entries.
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:33 pm PostPost subject:
crayons
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I have had previous engagement with the SMRC via the MX5 Cup, and as I said I would be happy to take an active roll, whatever that maybe, but perhaps the role of Driver Rep is something that could be shared by a number of individuals.

I do think that the first step would be is gathering the entrants together and try and start to develop that club/ community feeling that the SMRC is missing.
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Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:44 pm PostPost subject:
Team Cowie
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Here is a copy of what I sent to the SMRC on the 29th Nov I was told to late to make changes.

Hi I wanted to ask if you think the SMRC would be up for looking into changing the class structure in the sports and saloons for 2017.
To try and make it more fair to everyone that enters. At the moment having all engine sizes racing together in each class is way too one sided for the big engine cars, I have been told by a few people now that have all said the same thing that its not worth entering as the class structure is not fair, most said better off doing 2x trackdays.

I done 4 rounds last year and to be honest I felt the same way, that's why I did not do anymore because of this class problem.

I would love to see some changes to the class structure to maybe get larger grids and classes for people to run in that will give them a chance of trying to win.

Please let me know your thoughts

Keith Cowie
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:26 am PostPost subject:
AK
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That in it self is a bit of a tricky subject ... look at Andrew Morrison and his relative success in SMRC in a comparable car to yours (fairly modest power 2wd).

He was nearly always in the mix for decent points and overall championships - but like you said... on most days he couldnt live with the power of the front runners.

He did blitz the class when he ran in B.... which IMO was a bit shallow.

I think the current structure 'can' work..... its just getting the numbers in to make it work that the issue. I think the series as a whole would potentially be worse off if there was a few more sub classes thrown in... further diluting the field. BUT..... its tricky... change classes to get more folk interested... too many classes that makes potential classes of 1?

I (we) have the same issue in A1... we are something like 250-300hp down on some of the other guys but can generally keep in the mix if not right at the front every lap. Fee won A1 2 (ithink) years ago... and was 2/3rd overall in an 'underpowered' car. She also had plenty of on track battles (with and outwith) her class.

If you want to be at the front.. proper front.... you have to throw a shit load of cash at a car and make it faster.

When Mark was active drivers Rep and drumming up interest the series had some decent numbers... it can be done again, and some. Just needs folk to step up, and then for that person to be given some support.
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:11 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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There's nothing wrong with the Class structure. It works fine and very few cars with big engines run in S&S.
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:11 am PostPost subject:
Team Cowie
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HummuH wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the Class structure. It works fine and very few cars with big engines run in S&S.


Yes there is just need to look at the championship that runs at croft to see the huge race entry's they have 2 races to fit everyone in.

If someone wanted to enter a 1600cc car in the road going class what chance do they have of scoring anything.

That's like saying why bother having classes in super lap Scotland. Who would enter if they had to complete with the power of the pro cars.
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:17 am PostPost subject:
AK
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Laughing

Lets not compare SMRC and SLS classes.

SLS classes were designed to combat the 'masses of power is required' trend that drives TimeAttack (motorsport).

Its true with any race series that isnt one make though. TO be at the front you need either a very very well set up car with decent power or just shot loads of power that deems any skill secondary.

I've lost track of the SMRC classes... but there used to be a 1600 (or sub 2000) class wasnt there? B2/B3?
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:24 am PostPost subject:
AK
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http://www.scottishmotorracingclub.co.uk/images/scottish_saloon_and_sportscar__championship_2016___regulations_(msa_approved_and_published_1)_(2).pdf

Quote:
Class A1 - Saloon & Sports Cars (using racing tyres) with four wheel drive and normally aspirated or turbo/super-charged engines. (Caterhams and Kit cars not eligible)

Class A2 - Saloon & Sports Cars (using racing tyres) with two wheel drive and normally aspirated or turbo/super charged engines. (Caterhams and Kit cars not eligible). Cars in former or existing one make series such as TVR Tuscan, Crossle 9S, Ginetta are eligibleScottish Saloons and sportscars 2016 11

Class A3 - Caterhams, Kit cars and motorcycle engined kit cars (using racing tyres). Caterhams of any engine capacity, Kit cars up to 3500cc. Normally aspirated engines only.

Class B1 - Saloon & Sports Cars (using treaded road based tyres) including all engine types over 2001cc, and all forced induction engines, and all 4wd cars.

Class B2 - Caterhams and Kit cars over 1401cc and motorcycle engined kit cars and Caterhams of any engine capacity (using treaded tyres).

Class B3 - Saloon & Sports Cars (using treaded road based tyres) with two wheel drive, including all engine types from up to 2000cc (excluding all Turbo / Super charged engines, and 4wd cars). Fiesta 2.0 ST, Fiesta Si 1800 and Fiesta S cars running to 2014 SMRC Fiesta ST CUP regulations. Plus Caterhams and Kit cars up to 1400cc (also using treaded tyres) and excluding motorcycle engine cars of any capacity.


so... there is a class for 2wd <2000cc road tyre cars... just no one races in it! Go figure :S
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:28 am PostPost subject:
Team Cowie
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NSSCC - 2016
Here are the nsscc class structure below. Why not try and run something the same so that maybe some cars would travel north and enter S&S looking at results they get some big grids with good racing.

NSSCC
SERIES CLASSES

Class Description
Class A1 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2000cc.
Class A2 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity up to and including 2000cc
Class B1 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2900cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class B2 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2000cc up to and including 2900cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class C Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 1600cc up to and including 2000cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class D Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity up to and including 1600cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class E1 Kit Cars unlimited capacity and modifications car derived engines.
Class E2 Kit Cars motorcycle engines
Class H Saloon and Sports Cars originally manufactured before 1980 excluding all four wheel drive vehicles.
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Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:33 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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Team Cowie wrote:
NSSCC - 2016
Here are the nsscc class structure below. Why not try and run something the same so that maybe some cars would travel north and enter S&S looking at results they get some big grids with good racing.

NSSCC
SERIES CLASSES

Class Description
Class A1 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2000cc.
Class A2 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity up to and including 2000cc
Class B1 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2900cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class B2 Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 2000cc up to and including 2900cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class C Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity over 1600cc up to and including 2000cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class D Saloon and Sports Cars with engine capacity up to and including 1600cc Tyres from List 1A or 1B.
Class E1 Kit Cars unlimited capacity and modifications car derived engines.
Class E2 Kit Cars motorcycle engines
Class H Saloon and Sports Cars originally manufactured before 1980 excluding all four wheel drive vehicles.


Keith, I think you're missing the point slightly, well, my point.

The reason the NSSCC is successful is not down to the Class structure, it's down to how the Championship is run and managed. In my opinion.
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