top

Geek Data for 14th Trackday

Post new topic Reply to topic trackscotland.co.uk Forum Index | Track Days    Page 1 of 1

Tue May 17, 2011 10:29 pm PostPost subject: Geek Data for 14th Trackday
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

Overlay of James and My laps... i'm brown, james pink ( Confused )

I did a 59, James a 61 so not a huge difference in time really.

Points to note:

I broke about 110m further up the pit straight....
My braking is normally 'steaper gradient' stronger, but is the same on the Hairpin, all be it a touch later (from a slower speed so makes sense). The traces match pretty well there. Very different lines here, no idea which is best, i'd guess james is smoother on exit perhaps

Carlube - the traces are very different. Later on the brakes, in deeper and earlier on the power perhaps

duffis - I enter much further over and cut more

speed v dist


speed v time


hairpin


duffis


dip


chicane

_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Tue May 17, 2011 10:46 pm PostPost subject:
James B
established user


Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 1391
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

Adam,

Thanks for doing that. Very interesting stuff. I knew i was a lot earlier on the brakes into Duffus than anyone else so i've just got to be ballsier about it. Carlube was surprising as i felt I was ok there but clearly there's a good bit of time to be found there too.

I suspect i'll not be riding the kerbs at chicane like you anytime soon but we'll see if the mist decends one day! Wink
_________________
Alfa Romeo GT Junior
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Wed May 18, 2011 9:47 am PostPost subject:
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

give it a try - its not bad really, just miss the right hand one.

Carlube is the kerb that really seems to lift the car.... duffis and butchers just bounce you off line a bit if you clip them a touch too much (even painted kerbs, not the raised sections/sausages)

Duffus - just count 1 sec after where you think you should brake Laughing thats what Fee does and I'd say she is better on the brakes than me. Just keep pushing deeper till the point where you have gone a little too far and then bring it back.... i.e you can always just keep the car braking straight deeper if you are too fast for turn in. power-brake-turn-power on a bit till car is settled then more power (full throttle) at the dip cutting on the inside where there is no raised kerb (use the grass). I find this line helps get the car in better shape for braking. If i dont cut I find my line leaves me to far to the right and struggling with the rear of the car into McIntyres.

Do you have ABS?
_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Wed May 18, 2011 10:23 am PostPost subject:
James B
established user


Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 1391
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

Thanks for those tips. I'll use them next time i'm out!

The car had ABS but I have it disabled at the moment. Had an issue at the 'Ring when I found it would cut in too readily over any wee bumps and leave me with reduced braking ability and soiled pants....
_________________
Alfa Romeo GT Junior
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Wed May 18, 2011 10:49 am PostPost subject:
dunc
established user


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1938
Location: Dundee

Reply with quote

ABS is the devil!


_________________
Radical CS, BMW e34 540i-6, 944 turbo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:14 pm PostPost subject:
tvrolet
newbie


Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 72
Location: United Kingdom

Reply with quote

Just noticed this thread. For added geeky amusement I added my chart too from last night. It eas easier to put your chart over mine as yours had a white background that I could make tranaparent but it kind of lost your line colours. Interesting how different cars have similar traces; and it confirmed soemthing I did know and something I didn't.


Mine is the green line at the back, and given the traces start and end at the same point it was simple enough to get the scales to match, and I've put the top of your trace at 116mph on my scale which is correct I think.

So what I did lknow was thay while the car got up the straight OK, I'm really woosing out at the end and braking way too early. I think this is where loads of my time goes. I'm kind of between your traces at the foot of Duffus, but what surprised me is the speed the car's carrying round McIntyres where I'm always a bit understeery and certainly on/over the limit of front end grip. I know I can often close up on folks at McIntyres, but never realised the car was comparatively quick there.

None too sporty coming over the chicaine (that always worries me - car gets unsettled over there), but picks up some grunt on the wee straight before Clarks. Not a bad speed through Clarks, but I think I lost traction on the way out before getting up steam before the hairpin.

I always thought I braked real early for the hairpin too, but it doesn't look too bad by comparison. Then I'm struggling for traction again out of the hairpin until it gets into it's stride up the straight again.

So, what I always knew was to man-up and brake later at the end of the straight; what I didn't know was the car does fine round MvIntyres Smile

This is, of course, from the humble tvr/chevrolet. RWD, no ABS, no traction control, no PAS, no servo on the brakes...and real old tyes, I estimate maybe 10 years old! I can't justify forking out for a new set until they're through to the canvass, but maybe a slightly newer second-hand set might help things along Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:36 pm PostPost subject:
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

The quickest trace is from a 1200kg Impreza on road tyres with some 'issue' causing top speed to be down by about 8mph over previous runs Smile

Check out the Trackday thread for Thurs to see traces for Fee and Jock in the R35 Smile

You car does seem to be pretty damn hany through McIntyres though!
_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:54 pm PostPost subject:
V8 Addict
newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 53
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

How cool is that?? What kind of logging kit are you all running?
_________________
You don't stop playing when you grow old, you grow old when you stop playing...
RS6 MTM, E46 M3 Cab, Corrado VR6 and V8 RX7
Mazda Built by Craig at www.dynotorque.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:10 pm PostPost subject:
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

James, Fee, Jockthedog and myself - RaceLogic VBOX

tvrolet - dunno Smile
_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:31 am PostPost subject:
tvrolet
newbie


Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 72
Location: United Kingdom

Reply with quote

AK wrote:
James, Fee, Jockthedog and myself - RaceLogic VBOX

tvrolet - dunno Smile

Pi System 2; Pi are now part of the Cosworth empire.

In it's day it was the dog's danglies of 'digital dasbboards'/data loggers, and the standard device for everything from Formula Fords, Carrera Cup, Powerboats...and of course the Tuscan Challenge series.

But 'in it's day' was probably 10-15 years ago, and that was before cheap memory cards and GPS. Folks were paying 3500+ for these systems when new, but times have moved on. It's just as 'good' as it was 10 years ago and has some neat features - you can overlay speed, rpm, temperatures, pressures, gear ratios, g-force's plus other channels over the distance plot, and it automatically splits the track into sectors giving fastest actual lap, fastest rolling lap, fastest theoretical etc., plus comparisons against datum laps etc.

But as it pre-dates GPS systems it draws the circuit map using an in-built accelorometer...which is all very clever but not accurate enough to see any 'lines'. The more laps it does the more it 'learns' the circuit and draws a better map, so the map is its interpretation of the line round the circuit built from many laps. But the map is just for a referece for the traces - you click a point on the map and it tells you what the channels read. So you can see if you're losing oil pressure on particular corners etc., or see the differences between laps at the same point but you can't see the actual line driven, just the g-force generated. Plus if you are recording map data then the memory fills up in about 25 laps of KH. And it also pre-dates video feeds etc so there is no export function or output feeds. Plus the analysis software won't work on Vista or Windows 7 so I have to keep an ancient laptop with XP on it.

For anyone spotting a Pi System 2 on eBay or other classifieds (they do come up now and again) unless you are using it for it's designed use i.e.sole source of instrumentaion in the car plus data logging, then current GPS loggers are a far better bet. Plus, even if you do pick up a cheap one, given it was a real expensive system new, spares and senders remain expensive, most of which were unique to the system.

If anyone's interested, here's the sort of output an olde worlde logger gives


Little window is the map it's drawn of KH from distance and accelerometer readings only, but just for reference to how it's numbered the corners and chopped-up the time. Hmm...58sec theoretical on sha&&ed-out tyres.



An exmaple of speed, RPM and oil pressure. As the car runs OK throuh McIntyres, this is the section I've selected the slowest speed through there on the lap [wee cross on the map] and it's 51mph, which in encouraging, but it's also coupled with a drop-off in oil pressure to 36psi from the regular 60ish, but that's still within limits.



Speed, oil and water temps at fastest point on the circuit (125mph), but water and oil temps are nice and stable. It took over a year with different plumbing systems and radiator/cooler sizes to get to this point!



You can set a datum lap and than you can drag the current pointer round the map and it shows you where it is against the datum.



Plus a full engine log. Since its last reset, the motor has ran nearly 4 hours at 3-4000rpm, 2 1/2 hours at 4-5000 etc., but only 13 minutes at over 6000 - it's red-lined and 6500 and not really a revvy motor!



Also lets you store setup details against each lap, but these are the settings I came up with about 2 years ago; they seem to work so I haven't messed with them since.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:39 pm PostPost subject:
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

Thats the type of logger i'd like Very Happy

Oil Pressure at McIntyres - Are you taking the 'norm' from the normal at that corner? It could just be rev related if not.
_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:58 pm PostPost subject:
AK
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 19868
Location: Aberdeen

Reply with quote

just noticed RPM plotted with pressure so no drop in rpm..... that would worry me a bit, but its still 2bar'ish
_________________
Impreza Race Car - SLS/SMRC
Mini Race Car - SMRC
911 - 1981 Air Cooled 3.0
500 - 1969 Fiat 500 L
Toureg 262 RLine
Track Scotland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Post new topic Reply to topic trackscotland.co.uk Forum Index | Track Days    Page 1 of 1

View previous topic
View next topic
Display posts from previous:   




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum